 |
BROOKLYN COLLEGE In memoriam 9/11 and its Aftermath |
|
WTC ONLINE FORUM TWO 9/24/01-10/7/01 |
|
WTC SENTIMENTS
|
|
BROOKLYN COLLEGE In memoriam 9/11 and its Aftermath |
|
WTC ONLINE FORUM TWO 9/24/01-10/7/01 |
|
"WTC Sentiments" from Chris Toulouse (12:58:37 9/24/01) Review the choices in the WTC Sentiments poll.
How important are sentiments to the way that we understand and react to events? Are sentiments more a source of strength or a source of weakness? Which WTC sentiments does this poll miss (for eg. grief)? On the whole, in your opinion, is the American public presently governed by sentiment or by reason?
"Sentiments or Reasons?" from Paul Bajohr (13:48:02 9/24/01) Although almost everyone was touched and hurt by these events, I believe those who were directly effected by this lean more toward sentiment. The only thing they have left of those who perished is memories and material objects of sentimental value. They cannot bring back the person they lost, however, sentiment reminds them of what that person was, and what life they led. Those who were indirectly affected by this, lean more towards reason. Rather than grieving over a loved one, they ask the question "why?" more often. They want a resolve, and are thinking about retaliation way before those who lost someone are. They want to know "who did this?", "what was their reasons?" Their "why?" is more a general term regarding all the events that happened, not only pertaining to a loved one. In the end however, I think it will be a combination of reason and sentiment that will get us all through this.
"More sentiment than reason" from Mabel Tsui (15:12:19 9/24/01) I feel that our thoughts and emotions are essential to understanding how we cope with the World Trade Center attack. I feel sorry for those people who have lost their lives in this tragedy and for those who risk their lives to save others. In my opinion, the sentiments that we feel at this moment is strength because we all come together as a community to support each other through the difficult times as days goes by. Every time I go to the subway station in the morning, I notice that there are major changes among the American public. Everyone is quiet, no one is arguing or fighting, people are polite and say excuse me or thank you. Overall, I feel that the American public are presently governed by sentiments than reason. In some ways, we learn to like one another even though we are strangers riding on the same subway together. I am grateful that those people who are alive and safe learn to like and comfort each other rather than go against each other and hate anyone who are Arabs or Muslims.
"Definitely sentimental" from Trining Liggins (23:55:35 9/24/01) Although it appeared to be something right off the movie screen, this worldwide tragedy is all too realistic. We, the people of America, more specifically of New York City, have real emotions. I was not personally affected by this tragedy but I feel the pain these people are going through. This tragedy touched home. It wasn't like seeing the Oklahoma bombing where I didn't know anything about the area. This was a place I took my daughter to sit by the water and listen to the summer concerts. At only 5 months old, she will never again get to see what once were the tallest buildings in NY. I grieve for all the innocent lives that were lost. I grieve for all the children left without parents. I grieve for all the parents left without children. I grieve for everyone who lost loved ones. I would never know how it feels but my heart and prayers are reaching out. I don't ask why this happened because any reason given is not a good enough reason. Is there that much hatred?
"Grieving in the Jewish Tradition" from Rochelle Moskowitz (22:34:07 9/27/01) This past Monday night, after class ended, I went to visit a close friend of mine whose family was mourning the death of a loved one. He was a father to five children, the oldest being 18 and the youngest 4 years old. When I walked into their house, the wife was crying as more and more people entered her home to comfort her. It is a Jewish custom that the immediate family members of a deceased mourn initially for seven days during which their friends, neighbors and acquaintances are constantly to be with them. However during a tragedy such as this one, people kept pouring into the house and would not stop coming. Everyone wanted to be a part of the mourning, to hear stories and share great memories about the wonderful person that had passed away before his time. Being there really showed how close people can get in time of sorrow, everyone needed to be comforted, and everyone was comforting one another. Not only the family who lost their father, husband, brother and son, but everyone that came to visit was so distraught. It was really a night I will remember for a long time.
"Sentiment more than reasoning!" from Mojgan Basiratmand (13:54:16 9/28/01) What happened in WTC on Sept. 11 was such an emotional event that so many people are still dealing with the psychological after-effect. So many people lost loved ones, friends and neighbors that reason does not influence them. It is human nature that when touched by a disaster as sad as this one, not to pay attention to reason. Everyone is so afraid that such a disaster would happen again, everyone is shocked by the sudden strike of a hidden enemy. I believe it is far too emotional to be reasoned with. But the emotions evolved from this tragedy are more than just grief. These emotions are grief, anger, fear, and patriotism,... . They are these emotions which are bonding people together as a nation, people with different background, opposing beliefs, etc, now are close together. Maybe after all reason is not the only thing that can help. Sometimes emotions and beliefs can do a lot more than reason.
"Difficulty with rationality" from Abigail Perlstein (21:20:33 10/06/01) Although I believe strongly that racism and personal attacks are not the answers to anything right now. I have a hard time extending myself to be rational and fair with people and countries who have not shown us the same. There was nothing rational about Sept 11.
"We need reason over sentiment " from Dimitry Radomislsky (21:38:00 10/06/01) There is no doubt - we are angry. Most of us agree that we should start military actions against the enemy countries. However, it is important to understand your enemy's mind before taking any actions. Their government separates its own people from the truth by isolating them from the media. Some people there starve to death. Terrorist organizations are the offspring of poverty and the miserable living conditions in those countries. After living this kind of life and understanding that your child's destiny is not going to be any different, they go insane. They do not understand the value of life. They are ready to die for some idea. The first step we need to take now is to enlighten the innocent people in those countries with the truth, before they become our enemies too. The next step will be to help them fight down the dictatorships of their governments. And only by then we can effectively truck down the rest of the terrorists by using our intelligence forces inside those countries.
"Steps to grievance" from Yolande Mathurin (11:51:26 10/07/01) There are five steps to grieving. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. Right now the nation is in the early stages of grieving. Sentiments are very essential to the healing process, whether they are positive or negative. It gives us strength to move on and put this in the past. We have to let out our emotions and eventually we will come to acceptance. Once we have overcome that, then we would be capable of reasoning.
"More Rudy?" from Ludlow Rowe (15:15:18 9/27/01) The events of September 11 are indescribable and they will forever change the face of America. I think The mayor of NYC did a great job in this time of crisis. I do however think its unfair that he would want to use these events to prolong his term as mayor. The fact that The mayor showed strong leadership skills in this time of crisis does not mean he should be rewarded with a longer term nor should we change the law to suite him. I think business should go on as it should and that includes voting for and inaugurate a new mayor and that in includes the end of our currents mayors term.
"Rudy is the best mayor we have had in years!" from Rochelle Moskowitz (21:12:00 9/29/01) I think that Mayor Rudy Giuliani is one of the best mayors that New York City has seen in a long time. I think he cleaned up the city and its streets and has done a superb job in during his years in office. The September 11th tragedy goes to show what a good mayor he is by how well he handled everything. He has been strong and determined and very organized, yet sensitive and consoling to the family members of the victims. He has been effective, urgent and serious in making sure that New York can get back to a somewhat normal state during the cleanup and recovery efforts. I don't think that any of the candidates running for mayor could do half as good a job as Rudy Giuliani in such a crisis. Furthermore, I think that it will be extremely difficult for a new mayor to come into such a position in New York City during such a time. This is a time when New York needs an experienced leader and someone who is already very familiar with all the details involved in rebuilding the city. I wish Rudy could stay for another 8 years!
"Eight Years Of Rudy Is Enough" from Lana Signorelli (11:32:36 9/28/01) When a society starts to think on an emotional level,because of the tragic events on Sept11 there is problem. We all realize it is hard to understand such acts of violence and destruction,but to think that by allowing Rudy to stay on or be re-elected is helping NYC is ridiculous. Some in society cannot see beyond our sorrow and sadness, and simply forget about the many other important functions that need to be provided by a mayor. If we only look at the surface and see his effectiveness during this tragedy we forget his intolerance on many issues regarding, education, rent control,and racial crimes. A society that does not look at the total picture of things is weaker,because they limit themselves to only what stays fresh in their minds, which renders them helpless in making rational decisions.
"Anyone will do" from Jacob Gross (23:31:19 10/04/01) I believe that anyone who would be running this country would have done what President Bush has done thus far. Not to belittle the amazing effort being portrayed by the President and his ability to calm the nation. However anyone who would be in office at that time would do the same thing. First and foremost as a leader you calm your nation and promise to capture those responsible. Then you attempt to make this happen and all future events will fall into place. That is what President Bush has done a job anyone would have done. I think the executive offices are doing exactly what the nation wants and that is calming to a nation that was in turmoil.
"WHY will anyone do???" from Phillip Goldfeder (01:38:36 10/05/01) I agree with Jacob but for a different reason. Yes, it is what any president would do, but not because of the President himself. It is the staff, Congress, and senate that dictates what should be done. If all would have said to rush into war then the President would have backed it. But that was not called for in this instance and that is why he didn't do it, all believed he should take it slow and that is why he did. With any other president the same would have been done, and for the same reason. Not to belittle what has been done thus far, all that has been done was necessary and right, and hopefully in the future this will continue.
"The proper role of politicians" from Elena Rodriguez (19:07:43 9/28/01) After the World Trade center tragedy, of course, we are all walking around in a fog - a state of disbelief. Our emotions are stirred. We feel sorrow and grieve, but most of all we feel anger and have a desperate urge to take revenge. Human beings are emotional. Even when we make what we think is a rational decision, at the root is emotion. Emotions are the stock in trade of human beings. Our politicians are the ones who should act with a clear head. We have the luxury of showing our emotions and venting. After all, they led us to believe that we are so grand, so powerful, that nothing like this could happen - no one would dare. They let us down. Let them now act with speed, tact, and humanity not only in answer to this insult, but in acknowledgment of our emotions.
"The terror in our everyday lives" from Jacob Gross (09:17:16 10/05/01) Prior to this school year I studied in Jerusalem, Israel for two years. When living there you get to actually see how the people live in constant fear but always are moving on. For example I was within 150 feet of a bomb scare three times. When I mean bomb scare I mean a bag that was left alone and can contain a bomb. The police in Israel have a special unit for this scenario as it is a common occasion. When this happens you won't even see ti in the papers because ti is such a common occurrence. If something like this would happen in New York people would be blocked off for blocks not 150 feet like they do in Israel. It would be headline news on CNN or other news sources. I am not trying to belittle the US or Israel I am just trying to show how people can live with a constant fear and still get on with their lives. It is not an easy process but a process the United States will have to learn how to adapt to.
"The US needs Israel" from Dimitry Radomislsky (22:51:54 10/06/01) The first scenario is absurd!!! Why would US distance itself from Israel? The US and Israel share the same goal. Today Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle East. Israeli intelligence is one of the most experienced in the word today when it comes to fighting terror. For the last forty years or so, it has constantly faced assaults from organizations like Hamus, Hezbollah and the Islamic Jihad, which by the way are directly connected to bin Laden. And guess what? - It has survived. US should join its efforts with Israel and the rest of the world to fight down those terrorist organizations.
"Deja vu, life imitating art" from Yolande Mathurin (00:30:27 10/04/01) The attack on the WTC reminds me of the movie, The Siege, co-starring Denzel Washington, Annette Benning and Bruce Willis. In the movie, Annette Benning plays a CIA who is after terrorist. She later comes to find out that her Middle Eastern boyfriend is the master-minder behind the attacks. He eventually kills her at the end. Things like that we normally see in the movies, not in reality. It is a scary thing to know that there are terrorist out there who blend themselves amongst us, and are a part of our schools, businesses and communities.
"Today at ground Zero" from Rochelle Moskowitz (16:04:10 10/05/01) Today was the first time that I was back in downtown Manhattan. Walking through the streets was an experience in itself. The street are crowded and people were snapping pictures of the remains of the World Trade center at every corner, it was really hard to walk by. Many of the stores on Broadway still remain closed and you can still see the damage that was left from September 11th. It was so much more horrific to see these sights in front of me, not on television, but in real life. I couldn't believe it. You could hear everyone muttering their experiences as they looked on. As I looked too, at the wreckage, I felt sentimental for what used to be there and for all the people that we have lost. In my opinion I feel that the American people are governed my sentiment. I kept hearing people talking about what they would like to do to the terrorists... I think that they were thinking reasonably, but ruled by sentiment. It was a difficult sight to see today, I couldn't believe my eyes.
WTC SCENARIOS
"WTC Scenarios" from Chris Toulouse (12:50:01 9/24/01) Discuss the 5 Scenarios you are voting on in this week's poll. Which do you consider mostly likely and why? Which one is the least likely outcome and why? Add your own scenarios.
"WTC scenarios" from Lisa Allard-Howe (21:03:45 9/24/01) I believe if America response to the bombing of the World Trade Center by attacking the people of Afghanistan with violence then we are to a certain degree no better than the terrorist were because many innocent people will be killed and I strongly believe that violence is not the answer. Finding and arresting the people who are responsible for these attacks as well as disabling any future terrorist is the only answer.
"Religion, Religion, Religion" from Pavels Zavalijs (15:06:54 9/26/01) It is wrong to say that there are some responsible people for the recent disaster whom we can capture and declare an end to violence.
I was greatly amazed when I saw many "good" people of many Arabic countries were exulting as soon as they new of our mischief. So we are not talking only about extremist movement of Taliban -- which by itself is very large -- but about much broader issue. What happened on Tuesday, September 11th was an expression of that overall hate.
This is a long-term problem, which has no good resolve. Getting ourselves into war, we have to realize every detail that is involved and we cannot make mistakes. We will loose many our people for the sake of effort to stop terrorism, but we will not be very successful because there will be no winners (consider Russia or England). We will face greater hate and may loose some of our allies when we hit the Afghanistan and when innocent people (like women and children) will die, but we cannot avoid it.
In a certain period of time, the war will officially end, but there will be no long-term solution. Nothing will be changed until someone will destroy religious boundaries between cultures involved.
"Innocent people get killed in war" from Carlos Colon, Jr. (12:38:38 9/27/01) Yes, innocent people will be killed if we go to war. But war, in my opinion, does have its good consequences, if you can believe it. This war is really to rid terrorism from the world. terrorism kills far more innocent people over time and usually in such catastrophic ways. I foresee a war against the terrorists, not the Arabs, not the Afghanistans. And frankly, I'm all for it, because while people will die in this war, their sacrifice will have a reason, unlike the sacrifices made by unsuspecting stock brokers and secretaries on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001.
"Easy for you to say" from Trining Liggins (00:26:03 9/28/01) It is so easy for someone who is not going to war and not leaving loved ones behind not knowing if they will ever see them again to say, "yea I'm all for it, let's go". But you have to see it like this, if the war is against terrorism worldwide and the US feels the need to be the superior one and take on this challenge, the US has to remember that the terrorists are here. So does that me the US must fight on their own soil? That will put all of America in jeopardy with that theory. A lot of people are speaking out of hurt and anger and are not thinking about the reasons and consequences of war. If it was so easy, Bush would have declared war on Sept 12, but he didn't because this is not an easy situation to win. If we went to Afghanistan killing innocent people, are we any better that the terrorists were? Think about it.
"I'd Like To Believe..." from Linda Balacky (22:06:25 9/26/01) I'd like to believe that bin Laden would be found dead, killed by the Taliban. I thought that this particular scenario sounded like the most "pleasant" outcome. Wouldn't it be wonderful, terrorism being effectively contained by the US? The "fickle politics" of its many Middle Eastern allies (much as it was before September ll) would prevail? I want to believe it, yet I fear it may only be a fantasy. I feel very anxious as I think many of us do. I have found myself looking at Arab-Americans with suspicious eyes. What are they thinking, I wonder. How will we be able to distinguish a terrorist from an Arab-American with no malintent? Life will never be the same. I foresee more incidents against innocent Americans. We will strike Afghanistan. Many lives will be lost along with those of the enemy. Yet I still like to envision it another way.
"Scenario: Fight Back Harder" from Diane Antonelli (19:08:21 9/29/01) I think that America has to defend it's democratic way. In the past we did not act harsh enough(send a strong message for fear of the consequences)to the terrorism overseas on Americans. Because the terrorists hit us on our homeland and killed thousands of innocent people we must retaliate in such a way that is unforgettable and sends a clear message so this will never even be contemplated . Therefore, the scenario of squashing all terrorists and their supporters is in my opinion the only reasonable solution for America's freedom and safety.
"America's most wanted" from Yolande Mathurin (00:41:57 10/03/01) Would Bin Laden get captured and stand trial? I think not. Eight years have gone by from the last bombing of the WTC, and still the US have not found him. He always seems to be one step ahead, because he learnt from the best(us). He is a man of extreme power, wealth, intelligence and his supporters highly respects him. It is difficult to capture him, because he is protected by the Taliban. To his supporters, he is perceived as a great leader, and they would go through all measures to protect him. They are willing to sacrifice themselves in order to carry out his commands. Their main goal is to weaken the US, and they would not stop until they have accomplished that goal. Bin Laden now has a reward over head, but who is guarantee the safety of the individual or individuals who turns him in. Would they have to continue living their lives hiding from the enemies?